Comments for Tempest Chasing http://tempestchasing.com Tea partying through Tornadoes in the middle of the night! Wed, 01 Feb 2012 01:41:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Rob Dale http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-58 Rob Dale Wed, 01 Feb 2012 01:41:47 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-58 Good questions Jason, however it's not that simple. If you never issue a warning until a tornado touches down, many many more people will die. By the time a tornado report gets to local officials, then to NWS, then back out as a warning we're talking 3-6 minutes AT BEST. So the tornado will be on the ground for more than a mile. The best mix is to use technology and at the same time use probabilities. To answer your climatology question - a tornado is logged when a tornado is confirmed. Not warning. Good questions Jason, however it’s not that simple. If you never issue a warning until a tornado touches down, many many more people will die. By the time a tornado report gets to local officials, then to NWS, then back out as a warning we’re talking 3-6 minutes AT BEST. So the tornado will be on the ground for more than a mile. The best mix is to use technology and at the same time use probabilities.

To answer your climatology question – a tornado is logged when a tornado is confirmed. Not warning.

]]> Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Jason http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-57 Jason Wed, 01 Feb 2012 01:01:24 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-57 It seems to me like the Tornado Warning has taken on a new meaning in the last few years. A warning use to mean that a Tornado was occurring so seek shelter immediately. Now a Warning may be issued when a Tornado is actually spotted on the ground OR the NWS radar indicates rotation, and a possible tornado is on the ground. This second reason for issuing a Tornado is part of the reason most people do not take warnings seriously anymore. In my opinion rotation on the Doppler radar should not warrant a Tornado warning. Rotation means conditions are favorable for a tornado (aka issue a watch), but a tornado is not imminent. My question is if the NWS is going to use the radar to issue Tornado warnings, why didn’t they come up with a revised warning system (Watch, Doppler indicated Warning, and Warning). Also, do all Tornado warnings, whether they are Doppler indicated tornadoes, or actual “real” tornadoes get recorded in the climate record books as Tornadoes? Example: Oklahoma had 50 tornadoes in July, does this mean they had 50 warnings, or 50 actual tornadoes that registered on the Fujita scale? If warnings are the measuring stick, you may see inflated Tornado numbers taking down the record books. It seems to me like the Tornado Warning has taken on a new meaning in the last few years. A warning use to mean that a Tornado was occurring so seek shelter immediately. Now a Warning may be issued when a Tornado is actually spotted on the ground OR the NWS radar indicates rotation, and a possible tornado is on the ground. This second reason for issuing a Tornado is part of the reason most people do not take warnings seriously anymore. In my opinion rotation on the Doppler radar should not warrant a Tornado warning. Rotation means conditions are favorable for a tornado (aka issue a watch), but a tornado is not imminent.
My question is if the NWS is going to use the radar to issue Tornado warnings, why didn’t they come up with a revised warning system (Watch, Doppler indicated Warning, and Warning). Also, do all Tornado warnings, whether they are Doppler indicated tornadoes, or actual “real” tornadoes get recorded in the climate record books as Tornadoes? Example: Oklahoma had 50 tornadoes in July, does this mean they had 50 warnings, or 50 actual tornadoes that registered on the Fujita scale? If warnings are the measuring stick, you may see inflated Tornado numbers taking down the record books.

]]> Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Kelton Halbert http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-56 Kelton Halbert Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:41:49 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-56 I appreciate the comments everyone! Kim's discussion was very well researched and very well spoken. I wanted to be able to share some of what I could remember from it, and I'm glad I did. I don't know how long it takes AMS to post the audio - this was my first conference - but I'll be sure to include it in this post when it comes online. I agree with what Doswell said in his paper - let the forecaster do forecasting, and not have to worry about the social aspect. I think it's a lot of extra weight that may be unnecessary. Tornado sirens are a beast in their own right... I volunteered at an EMA and asked about moving to a polygon based system, and the idea was not well received due to the politics behind it. NOAA weather radios are excellent, truly and sincerely, but they have the same flaw of tornado sirens, which is the county based system. At least you can rely on those, however (negating a downed radio tower). If the polygon based system can be moved to Wx radio like with iNWS, then it truly is golden. Again, thanks for reading everyone! I appreciate the comments everyone! Kim’s discussion was very well researched and very well spoken. I wanted to be able to share some of what I could remember from it, and I’m glad I did. I don’t know how long it takes AMS to post the audio – this was my first conference – but I’ll be sure to include it in this post when it comes online.

I agree with what Doswell said in his paper – let the forecaster do forecasting, and not have to worry about the social aspect. I think it’s a lot of extra weight that may be unnecessary. Tornado sirens are a beast in their own right… I volunteered at an EMA and asked about moving to a polygon based system, and the idea was not well received due to the politics behind it. NOAA weather radios are excellent, truly and sincerely, but they have the same flaw of tornado sirens, which is the county based system. At least you can rely on those, however (negating a downed radio tower). If the polygon based system can be moved to Wx radio like with iNWS, then it truly is golden.

Again, thanks for reading everyone!

]]> Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Gilbert Sebenste http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-55 Gilbert Sebenste Mon, 30 Jan 2012 17:45:04 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-55 Nicely done, Kim. I would also suggest the heck with sirens---they are outdated, don't work reliably indoors, rely on a third party always on top of things, and they don't have the expertise in most cases to do it! Some sound them way too early; many sound them when they shouldn't. But if you insist on relying on them, a siren merely tells you there is danger, nothing more...and to go to NOAA weather radio to find out. Skip the middle man, use the NOAA radio and then decide if you want to head to the TV in the basement, or run like mad. Nicely done, Kim. I would also suggest the heck with sirens—they are outdated, don’t work reliably indoors,
rely on a third party always on top of things, and they don’t have the expertise in most cases to do it! Some sound them way too early; many sound them when they shouldn’t. But if you insist on relying on them, a siren merely tells you there is danger, nothing more…and to go to NOAA weather radio to find out. Skip the middle man, use the NOAA radio and then decide if you want to head to the TV in the basement, or run like mad.

]]> Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Rob Dale http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-54 Rob Dale Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:19:32 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-54 Here is a link to the discussion on the WAS*IS forum regarding expanding the CTA's in warnings: http://www.rap.ucar.edu/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=484 Here is a link to the discussion on the WAS*IS forum regarding expanding the CTA’s in warnings:

http://www.rap.ucar.edu/forums/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=484

]]> Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Chuck Doswell http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-53 Chuck Doswell Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:59:25 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-53 I've been saying this for many years ... in response to a request, I posted a Web essay on the subject: http://www.flame.org/~cdoswell/CTA_statements.html I’ve been saying this for many years … in response to a request, I posted a Web essay on the subject:

http://www.flame.org/~cdoswell/CTA_statements.html

]]> Comment on The Current State of the Tornado Warning by Rob Dale http://tempestchasing.com/29/01/2012/other/the-current-state-of-warnings/comment-page-1/#comment-52 Rob Dale Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:50:24 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2811#comment-52 That conclusion is screwing with the effort by many within the NWS to expand the "Call To Action" statements at the bottom of warnings. They are pushing to expand the CTA segment and include more information within the text itself. Good job Kim! That conclusion is screwing with the effort by many within the NWS to expand the “Call To Action” statements at the bottom of warnings. They are pushing to expand the CTA segment and include more information within the text itself. Good job Kim!

]]> Comment on Weather and Python – A “New” Frontier by Kelton Halbert http://tempestchasing.com/10/11/2011/other/weather-and-python-a-new-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-50 Kelton Halbert Tue, 13 Dec 2011 04:21:07 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2737#comment-50 I'm glad you enjoyed this post! I'll be working on an update fairly soon. A *lot* of things have changed since this post, including some really cool new grids and methods. I'm definitely glad I'm not the only one out there! And vice versa - if I can be of any help, don't hesitate to ask. Kelton. I’m glad you enjoyed this post!

I’ll be working on an update fairly soon. A *lot* of things have changed since this post, including some really cool new grids and methods.

I’m definitely glad I’m not the only one out there! And vice versa – if I can be of any help, don’t hesitate to ask.

Kelton.

]]> Comment on Weather and Python – A “New” Frontier by Justin Sacher http://tempestchasing.com/10/11/2011/other/weather-and-python-a-new-frontier/comment-page-1/#comment-49 Justin Sacher Sun, 11 Dec 2011 06:21:11 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2737#comment-49 Hi Kelton, I've been working on the same thing. I, too, think MATPLOTLIB is the best way to go. It's nice to come across your post and see somebody else going the same direction I am. I look forward to hearing how it goes. Let me know if I can be of any help. Best of luck, Justin Hi Kelton,
I’ve been working on the same thing.
I, too, think MATPLOTLIB is the best way to go. It’s nice to come across your post and see somebody else going the same direction I am.
I look forward to hearing how it goes. Let me know if I can be of any help.
Best of luck,
Justin

]]> Comment on Intercept! by Jonathan http://tempestchasing.com/03/05/2011/photo-updates/intercept/comment-page-1/#comment-44 Jonathan Tue, 03 May 2011 17:15:37 +0000 http://tempestchasing.com/?p=2193#comment-44 dang cool pics. I was fishing off Liberty Pk near cool springs and had to quit as the storm was getting close. The shelf clouds looked pretty awesome I have to agree. dang cool pics. I was fishing off Liberty Pk near cool springs and had to quit as the storm was getting close. The shelf clouds looked pretty awesome I have to agree.

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